Ep.173 Exclusive Interview with 23rd Governor Arizona, Doug Ducey [2024 Phoenix Live Podcast Tour]

Promo Video [00:00:00]

Joe Toste [00:01:59]:
Today we have the 23rd governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey, joining us. Governor Ducey served as Arizona's governor from 2015 to 2023, during which time he prioritized cybersecurity and technology modernization, transforming the state into a national leader. Prior to his tenure as governor, he brought extensive private sector experience to his role as state treasurer and as the CEO of Coldstone Creamery, scaling the ice cream franchise from one single store into 1400 locations across the United States. As an entrepreneur, I absolutely love this, owning my own business. I understand the late nights, like, preparing for this event, and you also expanded to ten other countries. My wife at the time actually taught English in Tokyo, and she says she went to the grand opening of the very first cold stone.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:02:45]:
Were you there, Irapungi Hills?

Joe Toste [00:02:47]:
All right.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:02:48]:
Yeah.

Joe Toste [00:02:48]:
Governor Ducey now serves as the CEO of Citizens for free enterprise. Governor, welcome to the public sector show by tech tables.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:02:55]:
Thanks, Joe. It's great to be here. Great setting here.

Joe Toste [00:02:58]:
Thank you. Yeah, no, I'm super excited to have you. But before we jump in on your past life, tell the audience what you're up to now and what citizens for free enterprise is.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:03:08]:
It's great to be here. And I'm heading up a new organization called Citizens for Free Enterprise. We educate and advocate on behalf of free enterprise. We're also registering, cultivating, and activating voters. We're going to be all 50 states. We're just getting started. So it's in startup mode, but I've been able to hire the talent that I need, which is a lot of what we'll talk about today and what we were able to accomplish in Arizona is when you've got the right people, you can do a lot of good things.

Joe Toste [00:03:38]:
Yeah, I love that. And are you, now that you're out and you're back in building mode, is that your favorite? You love to build? Is that the.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:03:45]:
I'm flexing some muscles that I haven't flexed in some time. Cause startup mode is different than building mode. I think we're all, either we're building or we're declining. You don't get an option to maintain. So I do love to build, but startup is different than building.

Joe Toste [00:04:01]:
I love that. Maybe we'll have that we come back and do a second podcast exclusively on entrepreneurship. I would love that. So you prioritize cybersecurity, transforming Arizona into a national leader. Elevating the state of Arizona's cybersecurity posture to cybersecurity is homeland Security. While in office, you heard from many people, from private sector CEO's to national security experts in Washington, DC, that the threats were growing. You like taking a proactive approach from business to governance. I absolutely love that.

Joe Toste [00:04:32]:
Tell us more about your philosophy around protecting the state of Arizona, which includes cybersecurity.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:04:37]:
Cybersecurity is homeland security, cybersecurity is national security. And when you're a new governor, you come in and there's an overwhelming amount of things that you want to address. Of course you want to keep your campaign promises. You immediately inherit 35,000 state employees, a $40 billion combined budget, 220 boards and commissions, and 47 agencies that report directly to you. So there's a lot to get your arms around. And personnel is policy. There's just no way. And this, as an executive, you're going to be able to run all of these organizations.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:05:16]:
You're going to have the right people in the right places. And I know we've got people like Tim Romer here and Ryan Murray and before them, Gil Arachia. These were folks that were committed to the mission of Homeland security. But if you can think back nine years, the world has changed so much. And I don't know that we really knew what cybersecurity was at that time because some of the bigger breaches had not yet happened. But when you're an incoming governor, you get a briefing from the FBI and the Department of Defense. It's rather thorough. And for me, it was incredibly eye opening.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:05:56]:
So something that wasn't on my to do list went to the top of the to do list and the philosophy in all of these agencies. I just want people to understand what their mission is to have certain metrics as to how they measure success. I want to have transparency to taxpayer money and that it's being properly invested. And then I think everybody should have a plan. You should be able to speak in terms of what you're going to accomplish for the next 90 days and what's been done for the past 90 days. And doesn't necessarily mean people lose their job if you don't hit the metrics. We just have to make some adjustments. Are we measuring the right things, and then what do we need to do so that we're advancing on those objectives?

Joe Toste [00:06:39]:
We're going to dive into the metrics quite a bit. But I do want to talk about some of the specific initial steps, like requiring cybersecurity awareness training and creating a human firewall as some of the key investments that you made to protect the state's citizens from cyber threats during your time with Tim Roemer as the director of security and state CISO, tell us a little bit more about that.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:07:00]:
Through my security briefings, it became apparent that 90% of these breaches were human error and that they were using our own systems to come inside and to really do destructive things. Whether you're in the private sector or in the public sector, we hold a lot of information for citizens around the state, and not only is our job to protect the citizens, it's to protect that information. So we had a real educational challenge in front of us. We wanted to use computers and technology to do government at the speed of business. But at the same time, we didn't want to let our competitors, adversaries or enemies inside the state system. So really the main threats at the time were coming through the email servers. And what I'm sure everybody in cybersecurity is familiar with is this term called phishing.

Joe Toste [00:07:56]:
And that's a great segue to talk about phishing, how you phished your own employees through training emails. You actually started sending those fake emails on a monthly basis with a high difficulty level, as opposed to just sending them once a year and just checking off a box. Again, I really think this strengthens the human firewall. Like you mentioned, and as a high school basketball coach, I love when you come together, put a practice plan, and like any coach, when you prepare for a game, you watch tape on the opposing team and you've got to execute drills and practice. Tell us a little bit more about how you coached your team and folks like Tim Romer during your time.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:08:33]:
A lot like what you're talking about in terms of you're going to play like you practice. And when you see those scenarios in practice and then you see them on game day, you know you're prepared. It's almost surreal or an out of body experience. And you go through some of those same things when you're running for office or preparing for a debate. And we thought with this idea of using the email system and server to help train our employees, it was almost like becoming a better driver, being a defensive driver rather than being on offense, that you had a situational awareness when an email popped up that you didn't automatically double click on an inviting link. And so the idea, when we thought of it from a metric standpoint, we wanted to be able to measure it. We found an organization, I think they were called the risk sen that actually, Blake, you have a credit score. They gave you a cybersecurity score.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:09:31]:
We moved ours from 550 to 775. We reduced the amount of emails that were actually hit on from 14% to 4%, which was a dramatic change. I think one of the best things we did. We made a real investment into cybersecurity. I think we had 16 employees working on this single issue. But if you do the training right, you're going to have 36,000 employees working on this issue, because everybody that works in state government can say, hey, this email doesn't look right, doesn't smell right, and rather than click on it, they can advance it to the cybersecurity team. And then the most important metric, of course, is just zero security breaches.

Joe Toste [00:10:15]:
Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about this. I'm sure you're getting briefed on the metrics. I don't know if it was once a month, once a week, once a day, but I imagine these phishing emails are going out. And I was curious, what type of halftime coach are you? Are you like you go to Tim and you're like, are you the hey, buddy kind of coach? Or are you like Bobby Knight? Are you like Tim? I'm throwing a chair at you if you don't, if there's a breach.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:10:36]:
I grew up in Ohio, and Bobby Knight was the 6th man on that 1969 national championship team. So there's a lot of affection for him, but I don't think that his style works today. So I would be much more of a halftime coach. On hey, where are we and what adjustments do we have to make? That's the great thing about Mettrix, and we see it so often, especially this time around the final four. We all know what the score is and what teams are excelling. But when you can drive that through an organization, all kinds of good things happen because you have an awareness of where you are and if you're going in the right direction or the wrong direction. And that's why I think you try to. I think there was some fear in Bobby Knight's locker rooms.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:11:20]:
I think the coaches today that are excelling are driving fear out of the locker room so that people can actually talk about what they're seeing in their organization or their corner of the world and then work with a good coach to make those proper adjustments to get whatever resources or personnel or technology they need to address it. When you go to the actic center, and this was one of the first tours as an incoming governor, because you don't go in there as a candidate, you were able to see in real time the amount of cybersecurity challenges that we have on an hourly basis. And it's a bit mind boggling because they only have to. They only have to be good once. We have to be good all day, every day. 24, 700% right.

Joe Toste [00:12:08]:
I watched your as prepping for this interview, I watched your farewell address to Arizona, and there was a part that you said that I really liked. You said, in this job, I tried my best to do what I did as an entrepreneur. State the vision, set a goal and work with talented people to get it done. Governor, you brought an entrepreneurial mindset and approach to your role as governor, particularly through the implementation of the Arizona management system. You've already hinted on and touched upon some of the metrics, but any key principles from your private sector experience at Cold Stone that maybe help shape the system.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:12:40]:
Leadership matters, and with a job and responsibility as large as the state of Arizona, the people that you bring on are going to make the difference in so many ways. You are in the people business because you ran for office and the people selected you. But you're also in the persuasion business if you believe in what you ran in that vision. It's helping people understand we're advancing these ideas and moving them forward. But at the end of it all, you really are in the people selection business. When you put the right person in the right spot, all kinds of good things happen. And I think as a leader, you talk about the difference in coaches from kind of old school to what excelling today. If you bring somebody on and you give them, you give them a ton of responsibility, you've also got have to give them the authority to make decisions.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:13:33]:
And I really found that you can attract incredible people to do this. People want to run fast, they want to make decisions. And I think you should have a bit of an entrepreneurial mindset. But at the same time, I saved the entrepreneurial part of it for policy. I wanted Arizona to innovate. I wanted us. When I came into office, there were so many things that Texas had done that I had run. I said, why is Texas leading in so many of these different categories on economic development? Barack Obama would have never been able to claim the recession was over if it wasn't for Texas.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:14:08]:
America had lost 1.4 million jobs and Texas had recaptured 1.9 million. A single state. They were the only state that didn't participate in the 0809 recession. And I thought, there's no reason Arizona can't be that kind of economic juggernaut. And I wanted to be the lead spokesperson and salesperson for that. So it probably took me about 18 months to apply everything good that Texas had done. And then I came back and said, with my team, I want to be the exporter of good ideas. What hasn't been done anywhere else in any other place that we can do in Arizona? I don't think that state government so much should be cutting edge or bleeding edge.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:14:52]:
You want to find proof of concept in the private sector and then bring in those best practices. One good thing that we did was go from a data center driven cybersecurity strategy to using Google and the G suite and cloud technologies. And we were able to take something that was outdated and wasn't giving us the responsiveness that we need to actually, I think, get rid of that center and put it to more effective use and at the same time, be more accurate in what we were doing in protecting state government and the citizens of the state.

Joe Toste [00:15:29]:
Yeah, there's a lot you said there. I'm gonna unpack some of that. But first, I wanna talk about the relationship with Texas. We've been to Austin several times. I think we should have you come on the podcast with Governor Greg Abbott. What do you think, Tim? Do you think we should go to Austin? What do you think we should take? Right. Okay. We should definitely have you come back on the pod.

Joe Toste [00:15:44]:
And you also mentioned something really great. Arizona had their, on prem, and they had their, they moved everything, their cloud first strategy, which you just hinted on, which is absolutely fantastic. Moving the state data center, moving everything to the cloud, saving taxpayer money. You talked about adding in Google, which is great. And one of the other things you signed was an executive order creating the task force to recommend cybersecurity upgrades. We won't be able to cover everything that you did. We don't have a couple hours to do that. But I did just want to highlight on so many efforts in the tech space and just paying attention to seeing what other states are doing and asking, why not? Why can't we get better? I think that's such a great mindset, something that you.

Joe Toste [00:16:26]:
Going back to the Arizona management system that I did want to touch on. When you launched this new process, you probably had to overcome cultural challenges early on. Like any entrepreneur or business or executive, when you're new in the chair, new can be scary. New can be different. Talk about how you overcame some of those challenges.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:16:43]:
Going back to the theme of coaching, Lew Holtz used to speak at the Cold Stone creamery annual franchise meeting, and he said, you don't have to be the best team in the country. You just have to be the best team in the stadium. And that really stuck with me. That's certainly true. In politics. But once you win the race and you are the governor, when you speak of Greg Abbott and other governors around the country, governors are very collegial, and theyre very collaborative. Were all trying to solve the same problems. I think the Republicans see it from a different worldview than the Democrats do.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:17:19]:
But we all have those same issues, and theres a real competition, too. And I held Texas up during the campaign because I thought they were leading the nation economically. Now we're right there challenging them in states like Florida and Tennessee and other states that are embracing that. So when you can spread those stories not only of what's happening inside your state, but point to other successful models in other places, I think you get that buy in and you need that to change the culture. You know, when you run for office, I talked about what you inherit, but you really are never asked any questions about the job of governor during the campaign. You're getting asked. You see what we put candidates through. And then all of a sudden, if you're successful enough to get over the finish line, you've got about 70 days to transition in and to make sure you've got the right people in the right places in these different agencies.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:18:15]:
And these agencies had not gathered together under one roof in some time. And as governor, I convened them, walked in the room, I had some prepared comments ready, and I could just hear what people were thinking. They were all standing there thinking, we're going to outlive you. We were here before you got here, and we'll be here after you're gone. And I said, we're going to have change. And I expect people in this room to embrace these changes. And I tried to simplify it just like I did with you, mission metrics, money and memorandum. And I didn't see much coalescing or much leadership.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:18:56]:
There was some real group think of how was he going to get this done? And I had a lot of people from the outside world in the private sector that helped me become governor. Not many of them wanted to come into government and help me be governor. So I had to find the best people in state government or the best people from around the country that wanted to be part of this. And I talked to everybody that was in the position I started out with. Everybody has a uniform. We'll see if you keep the uniform. And I was fortunate I had one of the guys. When you become governor, the first month is you have inauguration on the first Monday.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:19:31]:
The next Monday is state of the state. The next Monday is the budget release. And that year in 2015, the Sunday we had the Super bowl, and the whole world was watching Arizona, and I had to assemble a state government. So I was talking to all the agency heads, and the head of the director of weights and measures came in, and I said, tell me who you are. Tell me what you do, and tell me how you know if you do it well. And I'm really looking for them to tell me about a metric. And he said, let me tell you what I'm going to do, governor. I am going to sting Uber and Lyft and shut them down during the Super bowl.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:20:10]:
And I said, this guy has obviously not paid attention to the campaign. It was also the first time I called Mike Laburdi, my general counsel, and I said, what exactly is the governor's relationship with agency heads? And he said, they serve at the pleasure of the governor. And I said, we're gonna return our first one to our about to become booming private sector. And you would have thought that I had freed all the prisoners from state prison. The press had never seen somebody terminated like this, and they thought that I was doing a special favor for Uber and Lyft. And in 2015, these were new applications. Nobody in the press corps had ever taken an Uber or Lyft at the time. They didn't even understand the technology.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:20:53]:
But I certainly didn't want Arizona to be introduced to the world's largest watched event on television with people not being able to get to the games. All of a sudden, I had people's attention in state government, and they knew that there was going to be a difference. I found some leaders of agencies. Bureaucrat is a bad word for many people, but these are large bureaucracies, and we had some people that ran them very well. Tom Batlach in our Medicaid side. Kara, Christ on. Department of Health Services were not only really good leaders inside their agencies, they were able to share some of the techniques and the processes that I was talking about. And then we did a statewide planning session where we actually had a strategic plan for the whole state.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:21:38]:
So every department really knew what their metrics were and what their missions were, and I'm very proud of what we were able to accomplish over those eight years.

Joe Toste [00:21:46]:
There's a lot in there that I really liked. I won't be able to touch on everything but the letting go of the agency head. I think sometimes as adults, it can be tough to leave your position. I feel like I'm a little bit more immune, because every year, you have to cut a couple kids from the basketball team, and then their parents complain, but it's actually a really great lesson to learn in life, and it happens.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:22:08]:
To nearly all of us at some point, maybe Michael Jordan and some Dave Winfield have never had anybody tap him on the shoulder and say, you can't play on this team anymore. But it's actually a good life experience, learning experience.

Joe Toste [00:22:22]:
It's a great one. And so I do want to touch on the collaboration with the state agencies and. Cause I think exactly every of the themes that we've been hitting today talk about your relationship with someone like Tim Roemer or Ryan or Jr. Sloan and how your leadership style really exuded out through Arizona.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:22:40]:
I think that'd be a better question for Tim Romer about my leadership style. But I do think becoming governor at age 50 in the second part of my career, and having made so many mistakes, how do you become a better decision maker? By making decisions. And then how do you know your decisions are getting better? You recognize what the mistakes were. And that's why I talk so much about people selection. It wasn't perfect, but I do think we were able to bring a real a team into state government. And that's the other thing I want to say about state government and government employees. A lot of times, conservatives run as opposed to the government as to making the government smaller. That's not anti government.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:23:22]:
We have to have a government that's part of what we do in the public sector. But having a government that's effective and efficient and that will be responsive to the needs of the taxpayers and the voters, and a government that I said, I want us to be welcoming to innovation from outside the state. Where do CEO's go? Why did Taiwan semiconductor decide to come to Arizona? Because they saw this as a place in which they could do business with an ever improving environment. So I do think finding those people, and they exist. They live in Santa Barbara, they exist inside these governments. There's eager people across the board, and we were able to find who I think were the best in these situations and make a real difference. I'll give you one really good example. Probably our Department of child Services was the most broken agency in the nation in 2015, and by 2021, it was a national model.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:24:22]:
And it was really making a change in leadership, bringing somebody in from the outside that was mission driven. These are kids that are among our most vulnerable. Oftentimes need a foster home, certainly a protective home, or are in a situation where they're going to be adopted. And we were able to clear these wait lists, get kids in the right settings so that they were safe and in loving homes. And also to make certain that we didn't have overly zealous social service workers that were grabbing kids out of homes prematurely. There's a number of checklists. If a home doesn't have an air conditioner, the child can't stay there. But there's also ways to get that air conditioner fixed before the state, which the state is not a very good parent takes custody of the child.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:25:10]:
So we were able to work with the private sector. We're the public sector, and then we were able to work with the church community as well, of, hey, do you have guys, parishioners that are repairmen, that have spare cribs, that have things that they'd otherwise sell at goodwill, that could keep a child in a setting in a difficult crisis type situation, but where it was the right thing for them, that was leadership, that was bringing the right person in. Just as somebody who had a real giving mindset to help fix child protective services, Tim Romer was able to come in and follow Giloroncia in homeland security, saying that the threats are different and these threats are new. This idea of irregular warfare or asymmetrical threats, this is really what the future is going to be, and Arizona is on the cutting edge of protecting against it.

Joe Toste [00:26:03]:
Looking back on your tenure, what are you most proud of in terms of technology modernization and cybersecurity advancements? In Arizona, for example, I know about the whole of state implementation that you passed in your final year that led to a $10 million investment to provide cybersecurity tools to local government. And we have several in the room to better protect from rising cyber attacks. Tell us more about your lasting legacy. Around whole of state, you already mentioned the cyber readiness program, but specifically around whole of state and the cyber command center.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:26:33]:
You nailed it with whole of state. I think this is a model that other governors should embrace and then build on. You want to protect not just state government. There's 91 other governments, city and municipal, inside the state. But you're really trying to protect the citizens of the state. And to look at this from a cybersecurity and homeland security perspective is a mindset I think people can understand. But if you just left it to all the individual entities, everyone would be recreating the wheel where this is one of the things in government where the state can take the lead role and provide the resources and learnings and technologies they have across the board.

Joe Toste [00:27:19]:
Another thing I wanted to touch upon was mobile device management. I know that you would wish you had more time to implement this during your tenure, so that government can save money by not requiring employees to carry around a second phone. You didn't get a chance to do that, but I'd love to hear you speak about the mobile device management program that you wanted.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:27:36]:
Yeah, that's part of the whole of government approach. Of course, we had to go first things first, but I think we could save the state a lot of money. There's really no reason for every state employee having to have an additional state issued phone. There's a way to protect what their government work is on their own phone, protect state government and protect the taxpayers. And that's something I think would make their life a little bit easier, more efficient, give them some more work life balance, and also save the state a lot of money as well as there's a lot of people that come into state government. People. Of course, when you're an elected official, you leave state government, you return the phone. There's a lot of tracking duties as well.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:28:18]:
I think this would make this a lot easier and effective.

Joe Toste [00:28:21]:
That's great. That was absolutely fantastic. We're going to move because I know one of the most popular things is people really want to get pictures with you. So I'm trying to squeeze in a little bit more time, but before we end this podcast, I hear you're a huge sports fan, so I want to wrap up with a rapid fire round. Some are softballs, some are a bit harder. First one, favorite cold stone flavor.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:28:42]:
For me, it's chocolate devotion. Any of our flavors with chocolate, that's what was my go to, including the. The chocolate ganache cake.

Joe Toste [00:28:51]:
Okay.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:28:51]:
Ooh.

Joe Toste [00:28:52]:
Mine is the chocolate with Reese's peanut butter cups.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:28:55]:
Makes tough to beat.

Joe Toste [00:28:56]:
It's tough, right? They smashed it up really well. And yeah, it's pretty good. Football or hockey?

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:01]:
Football. To watch? Hockey to play.

Joe Toste [00:29:04]:
Okay, so let's talk about this. You play hockey how long? Because Tim told me you've been playing hockey for a while.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:09]:
I haven't played in several years, but I played growing up, and then I was in one of these hacker leagues where you played at 530 in the morning on Friday or 10:00 p.m. At night on Tuesday night. And I did that for years, but not. I haven't done it recently.

Joe Toste [00:29:23]:
Favorite football team, Arizona Cardinals Jordan or LeBron?

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:28]:
Jordan.

Joe Toste [00:29:28]:
Okay.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:29]:
Pretty simple.

Joe Toste [00:29:30]:
I was getting a little nervous. So if the camera can't see, we've got these sweet Jordan ones. So ASU color, right? Yeah, yeah, ASU. So I know you're a big ase figure.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:40]:
I said cardinals for pro. It's Arizona State. Sun devils for college.

Joe Toste [00:29:44]:
Okay. They're not. They didn't make it so far this.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:47]:
Year, but got a great new coach, Kenny Dillingham.

Joe Toste [00:29:50]:
Okay.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:50]:
We've got a lot of hope and promise in Kenny D. I love it.

Joe Toste [00:29:54]:
I love it. You're gonna get a pair of these shoes. Maybe you'll be rocking around Arizona at some ASU games.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:29:59]:
I'm going to the games this weekend. Maybe I'll sport them there.

Joe Toste [00:30:02]:
Oh, nice.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:30:04]:
Run into Danny Hurley, see what he thinks of him.

Joe Toste [00:30:07]:
Magic or bird?

Governor Doug Ducey [00:30:08]:
Bird.

Joe Toste [00:30:09]:
Okay.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:30:09]:
Why? I say that because I think magic has really gotten his due. He's an international celebrity, incredibly successful entrepreneur, and, of course, was an unbelievable playmaker for the Lakers. I think Bird is somewhat underappreciated in terms of how good he was at the time, and I did love that era. The Magic bird, Jordan Arrow, I think, was the golden arrow of the NBA.

Joe Toste [00:30:32]:
There were several great games that I got to watch back, since I'm not as old as you, but Gretzky or Ovechkin?

Governor Doug Ducey [00:30:40]:
Gretzky.

Joe Toste [00:30:40]:
Why?

Governor Doug Ducey [00:30:41]:
Because nobody's ever going to break his records. Ovechkin's a much more physical player and seems to be an incredible leader in what he did in terms of breaking through for the Capitals. But Gretzky's entire career is. I would compare him to what Tiger is to golf, Gretzky is to hockey. Babe Ruth has been to baseball.

Joe Toste [00:31:02]:
Thank you for coming on the pod today and sharing your valuable insights and experiences. I had a fantastic time. I'm sure the audience did, too. And if you come to Austin, Texas, with Governor Greg Abbott, we'll have to get some cold stone ice cream in there.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:31:13]:
I'd like that very much.

Joe Toste [00:31:14]:
I love it. Thank you.

Governor Doug Ducey [00:31:15]:
Thank you. You should check it.