Ep.137 Modernizing California's 911 System & Building High-Performance Teams with Michelle Geddes, CIO of the San Francisco Dept. of Emergency Management

Joe Toste [00:00:00]:
Today we have Michelle Geddes, CIO for the San Francisco Department of Emergency Management. Michelle, welcome to the public sector show. Buy tech tables.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:00:08]:
Thanks, Joe. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

Joe Toste [00:00:11]:
I'm super excited. We've had a great intro call, and we were just talking before this too. It's just been great getting to know you. Hopefully we'll be able to connect in person later this year. I'm definitely looking forward to that. But for those in the audience who may not know you quite yet, could you maybe just talk about a little bit about yourself and just a short background?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:00:29]:
I'm Michelle Geddes. I'm the chief information officer for the Department of Emergency Management within the city and county of San Francisco. But really, what that means is I am responsible for all of the systems and the technologies that run the 911 function and the emergency management function for the millions of visitors and residents that come, come into the city. And not only do I manage standard systems and technologies that run it departments, but I'm also. My team is very specialized in running systems that support 911. The phone system, the computer aided dispatching system, the radio communications capabilities, the emergency alerting function, and cybersecurity tools. And we actually are responsible for the citywide data center in San Francisco. Pretty big responsibility.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:01:24]:
But I've been working in the private public sector for about 15 years now. Before that, I was in the private sector where I really learned how to design, build and implement enterprise wide mission critical systems. So that was a super valuable experience for me in the private sector. I would say I have a pretty challenging job. But I think the two most. The two things that I'm really the most proud of is the first is that I'm an engineer by trade. So I have a degree in electrical engineering from University of California, Davis go Aggies, and a master's degree as well in systems engineering and architecture. So that really was quite an accomplishment I felt for me.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:02:09]:
But then I think the most challenging role that I have is that I'm a mom and I've been a working mother. I have two teenagers, and keeping up with them and keeping the systems running here in San Francisco are probably the two most challenging things that I do day to day.

Joe Toste [00:02:27]:
What is more challenging, running the household as a working mom or the systems in San Francisco?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:02:34]:
Oh, they're both challenging. And it's funny, because if I'm in San Francisco and I'm here in the 911 center, I am checking my phone to see what my children are doing. And then when I am at home with my children, I am checking and making sure that all systems are running. So it's a constant balancing act.

Joe Toste [00:02:55]:
I love that. I grew up with a working mom. There's probably nothing more powerful than a woman who is a working mom. You talk about time management skills, you just get it done. I don't even know how to explain it. I think I work hard, but I even look at my own mom when she was alive and not even comparable. So this leads really great to the stem piece of the talk next. But I was.

Joe Toste [00:03:21]:
You led into that. So super smart electrical engineering by trade. Who got you into that? What's the background? Were you on campus and someone was talking to you? Was there a mentor? Was there a teacher? What kind of galvanized you towards that direction?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:03:40]:
Yeah, absolutely. And that's what it comes down to, is having that leadership. I was lucky enough to have a mother who was a nurse. My father was an engineer. They absolutely encouraged me to explore the sciences, math, and they gave me so much confidence and told me that I was good at it. And they encouraged me and honestly pushed me towards that direction. I also had a high school calculus teacher who was the coolest surfer. He shaped surfboards on the side, let's just say that.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:04:13]:
And he was my calculus teacher, and he said, michelle, if you do anything in your life, it should be in math, because you have that gift. And I didn't realize it at the time. And honestly, when I was looking at going to schools, I wasn't thinking, oh, I need to be an engineer. In fact, my dad, I was telling my parents, I said, I want to be a teacher. I want to help people, and I want to help people learn. And my dad would say things like, why don't you go get your engineering degree first, and then you can teach engineering? So it was just always encouraged. And so that's what got me into it. And so now I just, with my daughter, I encourage her, even my son as well.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:04:48]:
I just remind them how good they are, especially in math and science. And I give them homework problems to work on at home, and I do it with them. And every test they get back, I post posted on the refrigerator, and I celebrate them and their accomplishments in those subjects because I think it's been a foundation for me, and I want to see others have that same confidence.

Joe Toste [00:05:12]:
Yeah, I love that I do something similar with my daughter on the math. I'm a big math, but not really a big english kind of guy. So I defer that to my lovely wife. But on the math side. I used to tutor multivariable calculus, and for a long time, that's the. I wanted to go into finance, but there's a big math part of that. But she will come. And usually it's like the extra credit problems where it's like, I don't really have to do this, so I can skip it.

Joe Toste [00:05:39]:
And I'm like, no, you're doing it. Yeah, you're doing it. And so we sit down, and it's funny, like, they typically know how to do it. It's just. It just requires more steps. Right? You're just, like, analyzing, what information do we have? What's true on the page? And then what's missing? What don't we know? And then you just take it one block at a time, and it usually ends up. It's the same sequence where she's like, Annabelle, go, oh, it was just so easy. I knew I could solve it.

Joe Toste [00:06:06]:
I'm like. I'm just the guide, just walking through.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:06:10]:
My house because my kids aren't listening to me anymore. So I need you to help me with them, and then maybe I could come down and help Amabel.

Joe Toste [00:06:18]:
Yeah. Because we can spot for a little bit. Okay. We talked a little bit about love. It got the parents. And when I think about the world today. Cause I interview a lot of folks, and I think it's also in growing up. I grew up with a single mom and two aunts, trying to get girls into stem and just really making them feel empowered and confident.

Joe Toste [00:06:41]:
What. What maybe advice or tips would you have for both parents or CIO's today? And then. And then if you were. And then the second half of that is, if you were talking to your kids, what advice would you give to the younger generation?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:06:56]:
You hear this all the time, right? Industry needs females in these disciplines. We need female engineers, and it's a gap right now. And here's the challenge. And I felt like this when I was going through school, and even in my early on in my career, I almost felt like an imposter. Like, I would sit around in these classes and there were these brilliant mathematicians all around me, did not seem or look even anything like me, and so I just didn't feel like I fit in. And then even when I was in the private sector and I would be assigned as a female to be the lead engineer on a project, I always felt, oh, they probably didn't want me here because I'm the female. But it's not necessarily that you have to be the best engineer and know the ins and outs. Of all the different technologies and the roadmaps of products and things like that.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:07:51]:
But there's so many other facets to being a good engineer. Things like, and especially when you're working in teams and in government organizations, you need to be a great team mate. You need to communicate. You need to be a leader. And those, at least for me, those parts of me, was what helped me through my career. And I feel like there, women have a lot of these strengths that they can bring to these types of jobs. And so that's. I would just encourage you to stay with it.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:08:23]:
You might feel like you're not contributing or you might not feel like you're super confident in your skills, but the reality is that these organizations need you and these jobs need you.

Joe Toste [00:08:33]:
Yeah, I love that. Being a great teammate, communicating, being a leader. You talked about imposter syndrome. I was reading, I think it was the Harvard Business Review. It was a great article on. I gotta go dig it up, but it was a great article on, typically men like myself, highly overconfident. My wife editing this podcast is gonna die laughing. But, yeah, I think they were saying, like, most of the time, men are more.

Joe Toste [00:09:01]:
Are high, or they overshoot their confidence on a certain subject, and then women tend to undershoot the level of confidence that they have.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:09:10]:
Yes.

Joe Toste [00:09:11]:
Which I think is super fascinating because I think. I don't know the exact step. I would say it's true because I would say I'm pretty confident person. I would say my wife is, like, shy, but, man, she's really smart. Once you get her, once you sit down and allow her an opportunity.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:09:26]:
Yeah, it's like the reverse imposter syndrome with me. I'm like, belong here. They're not going to want me here because I'm not the smartest gentleman in the room, per Se.

Joe Toste [00:09:39]:
Thank you for stepping up and leading. This is great. And you also said this, too, about having that kind of example, which I think is super powerful, to see someone in just any kind of, any role go before you and lay the foundation, which I think is super powerful. And I was talking, actually, with one of my earliest episodes with this guy, Gary Brantley, who's the CIO for the city of Atlanta. He's now the CIO for the NFL. And Gary, on the episode, talked about how when he came to Atlanta, the team didn't know how to win. And it's. He talked about and very similar with kids, if you don't know what a winning environment or winning team looks like, it's very hard to win.

Joe Toste [00:10:21]:
So there's a kind of a cultural culture piece there. I'm a Golden State warriors fan. So it's like when Steve Kerr takes over the Warriors a number of years ago.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:10:30]:
Yes.

Joe Toste [00:10:31]:
Something about winning, it just gives you that there is a confidence. It also just gives you the roadmap a little bit to know, hey, and this is what I love about seeing in kids with the high schoolers, is you can look at a high schooler and see something in them before they see it in themselves. That's like the coolest part about leadership. It's like my favorite part and the same thing with adults. And a lot of times just these beliefs, these limiting beliefs that we have about ourselves that end up blocking us. And it's not actually a technical capability.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:11:05]:
Yeah, yeah. And I just talking about teams and building teams, when I took over this team, we had some retirements. We actually, I had over 30% of my team retiring within the first year that I took on this role. And so I have really been in the, in the business of building my team and finding the right teammates. And so I think I'm uniquely skilled to do this because I have the background in the systems and the technologies. But then also I'm a people person and I really love building high performing teams with unique contributors with different backgrounds. And that's what I've been working to do here with this department for the past couple of years. It's important.

Joe Toste [00:11:52]:
I love that. And I'm gonna say, quote, building high performance teams. So I recently interviewed anushreebhag, who said the exact same thing. Quote, love building high performance teams. So that's gotta be a pretty deadly combo. You're like both incredibly smart and technical and a people person. I feel like it's sometimes one or the other, but that's a deadly combination when you got the two of those together. That's a great way to.

Joe Toste [00:12:17]:
I am not technical. I'm very relational, but I am not technical. The most I've got is SQL and maybe some math. That's all I got.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:12:26]:
I will say, the more and more that I'm away from the server room and from the systems and getting in and digging into the configuration, I feel like I'm losing it more and more. But every now and again I'll make my way back in there and try my best to fit in. But it's hard to keep up with everything. It's really hard.

Joe Toste [00:12:44]:
Yeah, the world's changing. It's just moving so fast right now. It's pretty crazy. So on the California plan for the 911 system moving to the cloud. We briefly talked about this. Could you maybe just talk about the 30,000 foot overview of that project? When are we going to see that kind of come to fruition, and where are we at in the journey?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:13:06]:
Yeah. So California has quite an endeavor on its hands in general. I don't know if your listeners know this about the 911 system in general, but right now, when you dial 911, your call gets routed through very old communications pipelines that have not been modernized. The state of California has adopted a plan to do this to both not only modernize the backend network that connects all the 911 calls together, but then also is pushing all of the 911 centers in California, and there's about 450 of them throughout the state to move all of their 911 call handling equipment into the cloud. And so this is a huge shift for mission critical systems, especially with very sensitive data and systems that need just constant uptime. Right. And so most psaps have all of their technology on premise hardened backup power, backup network connectivity. And so we're being asked to move away from this on premise environment to a cloud based environment.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:14:20]:
And I will say it is the way of the future, but it is slow moving. The state launched this in 2021. I know that there's maybe one or two of the 450, we call them psaps, public safety answering points that are running on the new back end network technology. And then there's only one, which is like a two seat dispatch center in a very small town that is actually running their call handling equipment in the cloud. And so it's going to take some time to roll out. There's a lot of just lessons learned, and we need to see larger dispatch centers moving to this technology first. I think before a center as large as the one in San Francisco, we have over 60 dispatching and call taking positions, and we're combined. We serve police and fire and medical 911 response for San Francisco.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:15:17]:
And so it is imperative that our systems stay online. And so moving into that kind of environment is just going to, it's still some time out, but we're working towards it. I have a team that engages with the state on this on a day to day level, making sure that we're tied in with their plans and that when the technology will be ready to migrate.

Joe Toste [00:15:39]:
No, that is quite the undertaking. I don't even know where to begin with that. But that's a very large project, something I was thinking about. Is there any other, I actually haven't researched this. There are any other cities or states where they've had such a large jump that you're, maybe they're a little bit more down the road from where you're at that you're looking at. Hey, this could be a great example for us.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:16:02]:
There are, I want to say the, and there's not a ton of succinct data around where everybody is in this process. The states and then the municipalities as well. I want to say there's roughly 20 states that have started the rollout of the modernized network. It's called the ezynet, maybe one or two that have actually implemented it statewide, small states, and I don't have them off the top of my head, but there is not anywhere that I know of that we are monitoring, that has done cloud based call handling equipment. And I would love one of your CIO's on this podcast, if they are aware of it, to please, please contact me because I will do a debrief with my team because I want to know everything about it before we take the big jump.

Joe Toste [00:16:55]:
So that's really funny. That's exactly what I was going to say. If you're a CIO that's listening to the podcast and you've had a very large migration like this from an on prem to a cloud with the 911 emergency management system, you can just email me joechtables.com dot. I will connect you with Michelle. And she's absolutely fantastic. So if you have any lessons learned, please share those. Don't hide those in a closet or drawer. Michelle would love to know what those lessons are so we can help speed this up.

Joe Toste [00:17:33]:
It's a super powerful and critical system, so I personally have not had to call 911. But once upon a time, like a year ago, I was on a business trip and my wife actually had to call 911 when I was gone. It's pretty crazy. So she had a piece of cartilage that broke off in her back in the middle of the night, which is like, how does that happen? And lodged into her spine. And so I was flying across the US, and so she, she's like, why are you telling this on the podcast? Because people use the system all. So you can thank Michelle Jamie for keeping the system up today. But I digress.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:18:13]:
Yeah. Nope. And when you call 911, you want it to work. And let me say, I've been in this role for three years. I have lost the 911 phone system only one time for in, and I we can count it in minutes. And during that time, it was a power incident. Power is always, as any CIO knows, power is always one of the biggest challenges in keeping systems running. And so we had a human created power incident that brought down systems and networks, and so we lost, we did lose primary and backup for a short period of time.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:18:46]:
And what I had wished and what we are now working on is figuring out a way to get our backup system in the cloud even sooner than our primary system, so that if and when we do have the issue in the on prem building, whether it be power or whatnot, we have a cloud environment that we can move to. And so that's actually what we're changing our strategy and just trying to get our backup in the cloud, maybe even potentially, before we put the whole primary system in the cloud.

Joe Toste [00:19:18]:
Awesome.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:19:19]:
Yeah.

Joe Toste [00:19:20]:
Only one time. That's very impressive. That's quite, you said what was a human created. Human created power.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:19:28]:
When you come up to San Francisco, I'll give you the full story. It involves a ladder.

Joe Toste [00:19:33]:
Let's just say that I cannot wait. Jamie and I are looking forward to coming to San Francisco. Can you share any stories around the learnings or successful industry partnerships that you've had over the last couple years? And if you can't name the vendor, it's fine. But just love to hear from a.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:19:50]:
Broad level, oh, vendors are my lifeline. They are what? Keep honestly these 911 systems running. I mean, I'm not staffed, if you think about it. Right. And probably no government is staffed 24 by seven, round the clock to keep all these it systems running to support all emergency functions for a major city. And so I rely extremely heavily on the vendor partners that we have, and I tell my teams that, and, you know. Cause I saw it when I was in the private sector. I would see these relationships with government agencies in the private sector, where it was adversarial, and they were constantly saying, you're not delivering this thing.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:20:32]:
It's not coming on time, rather than when they just beat themselves up and it's. Wait, hold on a second. If you now look at this as a partnership, and you work together to solve the problem and maintain the system and upgrade the network, your success is, is their success, and their success is your success. And I tell my team that all the time, create and establish good relationships with the vendors because they will help you. I will say, for example, our cell phone providers, both Verizon and Firstnet, at and T, have been really great partners for us. For the longest time, local governments were building their own communications, two way radio. And so we're used to managing and building and maintaining two way radio systems. But several years ago, ten years ago, the FCC came back and said, okay, no more of that.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:21:23]:
We're not going to be giving cities and counties the frequencies to build these broadband wireless networks. You need to start relying on your carriers. And so that's where at and T and Firstnet stepped up, and then Verizon has now stepped up, and they are now with us. If I have a special event, I call Verizon and they come into town, they set up our command post. They staff the command post. They make sure that there's Internet available. They make sure that all the cell phones are working, and they bring in these hardened tools and have direct contact into their network. And so we always have the ability to communicate during these, during these major events when usually, you typically lose cell phone coverage.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:22:01]:
Right. If you're in the middle of a big event. And so they're with us hand in hand, and then I don't have to staff my team and pay them overtime to be out at the command post all hours of the day. They're here with us. There are partners, and they're providing us this service. And it's been, and they will, and there are many other industry partners that will come out and help us, whether it be establishing Internet service, satellite communications, just providing tools that we need to manage our emergency incidents.

Joe Toste [00:22:30]:
I love it.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:22:31]:
Yep.

Joe Toste [00:22:31]:
Shout out to Verizon. They're awesome. Now, do we know? Did we talk about this? Is it Patti rose that we know? Did we discuss this?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:22:40]:
I know Patti's. Yes, Patti's great. Yes. Her and the Verizon team, they do a great job of really listening to the needs of public safety and coming up with solutions. Their whole. The Verizon, their frontline initiative is really all about giving first responders, setting up these communications networks and being available to them in times of crisis. Yeah.

Joe Toste [00:23:05]:
Yeah. Shout out to Patty. She is awesome. She's been on the podcast live, which has been super fun. Yeah. Plug for myself, I guess. Episode 64, I had to pull that up. How about that one? Cause we're gonna be on episode 150 very soon.

Joe Toste [00:23:16]:
Redefine the front line with Patty Rose, VP of public sector sales at Verizon. Check it out. That was crazy. I heard a giant train go by. This is the nice part. Yeah, I just put that and I go, cut train out. Cut train out.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:23:31]:
That was a train. There's no train by me. That was your train.

Joe Toste [00:23:34]:
Oh, it was totally my train.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:23:35]:
Okay.

Joe Toste [00:23:37]:
That was a crazy train. Yeah. So check out episode 64. Redefine the front line with Patty Rose, VP of public sector sales at Verizon and shout out to, yeah, the whole Verizon team. Real great. They do a lot of great work. Super nice. I know a bunch of them over there.

Joe Toste [00:23:49]:
Just fantastic women, all of them.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:23:52]:
They opened the inter. They open revamped their innovation center in San Francisco. They launched it. I was there at their opening. And they have some pretty interesting new technologies with 5G, with private networks. They're doing some pretty innovative stuff. Satellite communications, definitely. I took my team there and we are starting to rethink how we implement comms for our department.

Joe Toste [00:24:19]:
Love that. That's awesome. It is a small world in the public sector. It is really small. Okay, that is fantastic. Final question, a little bit of a lightning round question. Top two to three CIO's or tech leaders that you would love to hear.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:24:33]:
Next on the pod state of California, if you can pull that off. The state of California is doing some pretty, pretty great things with data initiatives. They actually took the, almost the entire data team from San Francisco and they are now in the state of California. And the state of California is running some statewide data centers and they provide really great service to other municipalities throughout the state of California. So I would say that they're doing a great job and hearing their goals would be ideal. And then I will say one of the CIO's that I'm the most proud of and happy to call a friend is down in Santa Clara County. Anita D'Amato is the actually acting CIO of Santa Clara county. And she is.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:25:27]:
She's got quite a story, quite a background. She is marine, so ex military, also a working mom, and she is quite a leader. And she has found herself in an environment surrounded by some really smart, really innovative people, obviously in the heart of Silicon Valley. And she is navigating that team and working together with the county administrator to really modernize systems. And they've got an interesting environment because it's all consolidated it. So she's got everything under her, the healthcare, the PMO, many different disciplines, all the justice, public safety technologies are within her team. So it's a very large organization that she's running.

Joe Toste [00:26:16]:
Fantastic. The state of California. If anyone knows anyone at the state of California, I will buy you mojitos. If you can introduce me. That's my offer. It'll stand for as long as this podcast is Live, which will be forever. This is fantastic, Michelle. I had a blast late August.

Joe Toste [00:26:32]:
I'm looking forward to it. I don't think I have a live event in August, which is great. So needs my calendar. Jamie and I will make it up there, and we're excited. Oh, did you want to talk about that? I didn't know if that was public yet. Should I, what you're doing. Should we talk about that?

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:26:47]:
It's not quite public yet. We're working on it. I'm working with the city, the San Francisco city, CIO, also another female, and we're working to pull together the women in technology forum for government employees here in San Francisco. And we're really looking at this as a way to be, to create a voice and a means to communicate amongst other females that work in government, the it space. So we're exciting to launch. We're excited to launch that.

Joe Toste [00:27:16]:
Love it. Maybe we'll have to bring you back on later at some point with a few other gals to talk about the learnings, successes that you have in California that can share with other women, CIO's and the other 49 states outside.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:27:34]:
Oh, that's great. That's great. Do you have any idea, like, percentage wise, where it. Where it lands, female versus male versus.

Joe Toste [00:27:43]:
That is a great question. Oh, I would love to know. I wish I had a. It's not something I track, but I am. I think I could maybe ask Jamie to go through the we've got a notion database of every guest who's been on.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:27:58]:
You have that statistic for me in late August. I will use it when I meet with all of the leaders here in San Francisco. The female engineer. You get a live event in San Antonio, and we don't have live events in the bay or in California.

Joe Toste [00:28:13]:
We should. We should have a live event in California.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:28:16]:
Yeah.

Joe Toste [00:28:16]:
Yeah. It's coming at some point. It's coming at some point.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:28:19]:
We should go there. Sonoma.

Joe Toste [00:28:21]:
We should go to Sonoma. That's where we should go and do wine tasting there anyways. And Michelle, come on. Come on. This is a ton of fun.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:28:32]:
Yeah.

Joe Toste [00:28:32]:
Michelle, I will look out for the invite in late August. I will get you the stat. We will figure it out. Yeah. And then if the stat is really low, which I'm taking a ballpark on it right now, you'll have to help me.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:28:43]:
Yeah.

Joe Toste [00:28:44]:
Put it out there.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:28:45]:
Yes, absolutely. Sounds like a plan.

Joe Toste [00:28:48]:
Thank you. Michelle had a blast.

Michelle Geddes, CIO, City & County of San Francisco Depart. of Emergency Management [00:28:51]:
Thanks. This was great to connect.